Odes to Atari arcade games, Chelsea Manning and the art of seducing newly-divorced dads – American singer-songwriter John Grant is set to electrify Cardiff. He and Eleri Crossland discuss modern technology, the meaning of intimacy and which yoghurt flavour is the best.

On the title track of your latest album Love Is Magic, you argue that “love is not so tragic/It’s a lie that you bought”. What makes you think this?

I think the idea that love has to be dramatic is a lie. We make such a big deal out of it when people come into our lives and when they go out of it. Everybody freaks out when they think they’re in love, and when it goes wrong, everybody freaks out too.

As you get older, I think you’re able to reach a place where, if people want to go out of your life, you can just let them go and it doesn’t have to be so tragic. But the way we’re conditioned, we believe it has to be super dramatic. True intimacy isn’t necessarily that dramatic, it’s a deep thing that can really handle stormy seas, even when the boat’s rocking around and everybody starts freaking out, because you know that’s part of the deal.

Despite the title, many songs on the album ironically revisit failed relationships and explore difficult topics, such as depression, death and Donald Trump – do you believe modern love is doomed?

I think a lot of us really don’t want to work at it. I think everyone thinks it’s supposed to be non-stop, hot fucking and being able to do whatever the hell you want. These days, especially in the States, you hear about people ‘throwing shade’, ‘reading’ other people, and saying “I’m just an honest person”. If you say everything that comes into your head, you’re not being honest, you’re just being an asshole. I really don’t see anything positive about that.

You see all these dating shows where it’s funny to watch people just rip each other apart, but I think it’s pretty disgusting. There’s such a thing as being tactful and being kind to other people, and not necessarily saying “that shirt looks like shit on you, I wouldn’t put that on my dog”. That’s not being honest, that’s your subjective opinion.

Would you say that you use songwriting as a way of tactfully venting anger? Or do you let rip in real life anyway?

I definitely freak out in real life! I think it’s good to express anger, as long as you don’t hurt anybody. It’s hard not to hurt people, especially emotionally, because people are sensitive and human beings can be real assholes, including me, so I try to be respectful of people.

I find that the hardest place to be kind to people is when you’re driving on the road. I go to see a psychologist every once in a while when I feel I need some extra support and she tells me when you’re on the road and someone is driving like a total fuckwit, it really helps to put your favourite person in place of the person that you’re judging in that moment. If you put your mother or your partner whom you love dearly in that car, it can totally transform the moment for you, because you can’t see the other person as Satan anymore. I try tactics like that, because life is short and all these little tantrums that we have are so arbitrary.

These days there’s always going to be somebody filming you anyway, so you’re just going to end up on YouTube with two billion people judging you. If you want to throw your toys out of the pram by yourself when you get home, then that’s a better way to do it.

Talking about freaking out, in Diet Gum you deliver a hilarious, angry monologue directed at an ex-lover – has anyone ever actually attempted to seduce you in a 70s-style leisure suit?

No they haven’t, but I wish they would though! If you were to wear a polyester suit and a tie with a weird psychedelic print, I’d be really into that!

Whilst this same nostalgia for the past shines through on tracks such as Tempest and Preppy Boy, your view of the present seems much more bleak in comparison. Would you agree with this interpretation?

You think modern life seems bleak through my eyes? I guess you’re right. I do have a lot of nostalgia for the past, and while I do love modern technology, I think it’s been a really crazy learning curve. Kids have grown up with modern technology, so it probably doesn’t effect them as much as it has affected those of us who didn’t grow up with it, because it’s been such a shock to the system. It totally changes the way you interact with the world. But I think we’re still individuals and we all react to these things differently and, for me, the internet is such an incredible place where you can look at anything in any language.

But it has given a lot of people a platform to just have verbal diarrhoea all the time, and that’s pretty gross. I’m not a big Facebook fan, even though I used it for years, because I just don’t like that sticky-sweet, saccharine version of life that’s displayed on there. It just doesn’t seem real to me. I do think it’s quite difficult thing to figure out and I still haven’t figured it out.

You’re coming to Cardiff to play St. David’s Hall, and in the past you’ve played with Welsh artists such as James Dean Bradfield. Are there any other Welsh artists you enjoy?

Oh yeah, there’s tons! I like all the old school stuff, like Shirley Bassey and Tom Jones, but I also think Gruff Rhys is a real genius, and Cate Le Bon is one of my favourite artists of all time. I think Marina Diamandis (of Marina And The Diamonds) has a really killer voice and a really great pop sensibility, and I really love the fact that her accent comes through in the music. I love the Welsh accent, it’s really beautiful. There was a show called Nighty Night with Julia Davis with a Welsh character called Linda, who will make you laugh your ass off.

On opening track Metamorphosis, you ask “67 yoghurt flavours / Which one do you want?” But which flavour would you choose?

I lived in Germany for quite a while – I was in Heidelberg for a year and a smaller town for five years- and my all-time favourite yoghurt is made in Germany by a company called Almighurt. They have a Russischer Zupfkuchen – chocolate cheesecake – flavour and it comes in a glass jar. It tastes exactly like chocolate cake batter and it’s off the fucking hook!

Get Schooled! – Here’s five of John Grant’s most savage musical moments

You And Him (Grey Tickles, Black Pressure, 2017)

“You and Hitler oughta tie the knot / You could do it at Taco Bell to spice up the plot”

What’s worse than being compared to Hitler? Surely being told that the pair of you should hook up, invest in some matching knitwear, get married in a fast food chain restaurant and invite Pol Pot over to play Twister afterwards has got to be up there, right?

Black Belt (Pale Green Ghosts, 2013)

“You got really good taste, you know how to cut and paste”

Whilst this track is dripping in barbs directed at a despised ‘black-belt bullshitter’, it’s the simple ones that stand out. In one line, Grant teases the aforementioned foe with what appears to be a nice compliment, before calling them out for the total poser they are.

Sigourney Weaver (Queen Of Denmark, 2010)

“I feel just like Winona Ryder / In that movie about vampires / And she couldn’t get that accent right / Neither could that other guy”

Grant is a cineaste and his lyrics frequently namecheck actors. Naturally, you have to have some sympathy for the poor soul being simply referred to as that other guy who couldn’t pull off an accent (Keanu Reeves). That being said, anyone who’s seen “that movie about vampires” (Bram Stoker’s Dracula) will agree that Grant kinda has a point.

Diet Gum (Love Is Magic, 2018)

“Hey, I’ve got some Gaines-Burgers you can have if you want ‘em / You might as well, you’ve clearly hit rock bottom”

In a cornucopia of elaborately-worded insults, this one is the real treasure. This line sees Grant at his most patronising, suggesting his ex has sunk so low, he may as well be chewing on some charitably-offered dog food. Ouch.

The Czars – Trash (Goodbye, 2004)

“Why don’t you try sticking your dick into all the things that you bought / With your hard-earned cash”

Sharped-tonged even before he went solo; in this track taken from his former band The Czars’ final album, the GMF bids farewell to a former lover – but not without firing shots at the finale.

John Grant. St. David’s Hall, Cardiff, Mon 11 Feb. Tickets: £27. Info: 029 2087 8444 / www.stdavidshallcardiff.co.uk 

photos Shawn Brackbill