This touring package of sisterly AOR faves Woman To Woman have added a woman to their women for their November dates, with Judie Tzuke, Beverley Craven and Julia Fordham joined by Rumer. Anna Mitchell spoke to Judie about Woman To Woman and her extensive career.
When I catch up with Judie Tzuke via phone, she’s outside the garden centre, buying food for her dog and two cats. Her husband, daughters and neighbours will be taking care of them whilst she is on the latest Woman To Woman tour. Tzuke doesn’t really like being away: today, she says, she’s terrified of what’s coming and of being away from her animals. Yet once she’s on her way and settled into the vibe, the singer knows she will have fun and ease into the tour. As for the one Welsh date, in Cardiff’s St David’s Hall, Tzuke has long been a regular visitor to Wales – her best friend was from Milford Haven, and she spent all her summers there.
So, what a collection of iconic women you’ve gathered! How did this all come about?
Judie Tzuke: Well, Beverley [Craven] is the one who had the idea in the first place. We didn’t know each other, but we did have the same agents, and through them, we got messages that Beverley thought it would be a really good idea – because we were all doing slightly smaller gigs. I was doing a thing called Songs & Stories with my guitarist, my daughter and sometimes a couple of other people.
I wanted to get to know my audience properly because for most of my career I’d been terrified of people coming in to see me fail if I go wrong. I had cancer, then went back on the road too quickly, and I did a show in London where I had a terrible throat and basically, no voice: everything I’d always been frightened of happening, happened.
I felt diabolical – it was a full house – but my daughters were singing, so I don’t think the audience quite knew how bad I was. But they sang all the songs to me, the audience; I got three or four standing ovations, and to this day people say they wish they’d been there. It taught me the audience seem to like me – nobody wanted me to fail, which was how I’d been approaching doing live work.
I sort of fell in love with my audience after that awful gig and realised that they weren’t something to be afraid of. They’re mostly like me! So we’d do an evening where we would just talk, I would sing; they would ask me questions and I would answer them. It was really nice.
But going back to your question, we were all doing smaller gigs and couldn’t afford to take a full band on the road at that point in any of our careers, as it is really expensive. So Beverley thought this would be a great idea because we could each use the same bands.
And how do you decide between you what songs make the cut?
Judie Tzuke: Last time [on tour] we were all a bit new to it, so we came in with different ideas, but the old songs seem to go down the best, so this tour is more about them. We all do our famous songs. There aren’t any new songs, but we’ll probably do that next year – I’ve got a new album that I’m making at the moment. But this is all about nostalgia, really, and the songs that people loved hopefully in important times of their lives.
You have so many worldwide smash hits between you and all prolific songwriters.
Judie Tzuke: Well, that’s right. I am a really sensitive person, don’t particularly like being centre of attention, and don’t really want to be on stage. I love writing songs, and singing; the stage thing was something I had to do. But I now enjoy it more, especially sharing with three other women. I don’t feel like the centre of attention, and can be myself more.
It must be great that you can share that with others as well on stage. Warrior women together, as it were!
Judie Tzuke: Yes, I think that’s true! It certainly was true last time, and we’ve got Rumer as well this time, so it should be even more so. I’m not quite sure how we are all going to fit on the stage – we’re all there most of the night, doing each other’s backing vocals and stuff.
Obviously, you’ve been through some life obstacles between you. How instrumental has this been for you all and what have you learned from each other through this?
Well, I didn’t know Julia or Beverley. I knew who they were, and their music, but we didn’t know each other from the past. I think all of us had been solo women with bands that were mainly men, and when we met it was very instant that we realised how much we had in common, and how much we were able to talk about things, and actually realised that it wasn’t just each of us things has happened to – good and bad things!
It is a wonderful thing to have other people because there aren’t that many people like us, you know. How many women my age are on tour? When I’m not touring, I’m in my little house pottering about with my cats and dog, very introverted. The next thing I know, I’m standing on a big stage with people staring at me. It’s very weird!
I bet! How does that look, then, when you are deciding on what to wear?
Judie Tzuke: I’m doing that this afternoon! I’m getting them all out, and my room looks like a bomb has hit it. I’ve got everything out. I wear clumpy shoes, because I don’t like high heels – the girls, Julia [Fordham] and Beverley, wear very elegant high heels, and I know they laugh at me in my Doc Martens and trainers and things! But I think if I’m on stage, I want to look like me, I don’t want to look like a different person, so I wear what I wear!
And you seem quite spiritual – are you?
Judie Tzuke: I probably am. I’ve been told I’m an empath as well, and I think that makes sense. There’s a point where somebody can completely change my mood by how they are feeling. I love the idea of angels – I’m not religious, but I choose to believe in angels; it makes me feel there’s something out there, but I don’t know what it is.
But yes, I believe in hope and positivity and I chant sometimes… just sometimes. Not all the time. I suppose I am a bit spiritual, but I don’t think of myself as spiritual. I live the way I live because I feel that’s what the right thing is for me, not because I’m trying to live up to any religion.
And you can certainly feel that vibe coming across, and as you say you are an empath.
Judie Tzuke: We have an audience that feels like they love us, feels like they are with us. I underestimated my audience’s feelings for me, and the audience have no idea how much their feelings affect us onstage. That can make a great show even better.
You all have distinctive, strong voices. How did you work out who was doing what in terms of harmonising etc?
Judie Tzuke: On the last tour, it was obvious because Beverley has a really beautiful high voice; I’m kind of middling, and Julia has a bit of an everything voice – she can go very high, but her voice is in general lower. So Julia would do the low bit, I would do the middle bit and Bev would do the top bit. On our own songs, we would try it out, but we’ve got Rumer now, and I don’t know how that’s going to work. I love singing with her, but she’s more in the middle like me, so we might end up singing in the harmonies together.
How is Rumer feeling about the whole thing?
Judie Tzuke: I think she’s really excited! She’s not done anything like this before, and she’s got a beautiful voice. I guess we’ll find out! But we’re all fine, none of us are fighting, nothing has gone wrong – people say, “Oh my god, all those women together…” But I think we are all decent human beings!
I think it’s very empowering having women together, particularly if you are all on that same thread. Doing what you love doing.
Judie Tzuke: Yes – I think we’re different enough but similar.
Absolutely! So, the tour production. Did you get to handpick your musicians?
No, we have a band that we’re all sharing, and got great players. We had Julia’s band on the last tour. The drummer [Charlie Morgan] has actually worked with me back in the early 80s. He was my drummer for a while, and then he worked for Beverley. He also worked with Kate Bush, and he played for Elton for 13 years! So we do know him.
I have never played with the bass player before, but he seems really nice. John Wright is the guitarist – he was on the last tour – we’ve got Andy Murray, not the tennis player, and Phil, sorry not sure of his surname. So yes, we’ve got a really good band.
What do you do after a gig, to wind down after a performance?
Judie Tzuke: Well, we go back to the hotels, but usually, the bars are shut by the time we get there. If not, we’ll try and sit down and have a wind-down – but generally, just go to bed. Very boring really! I do joke about that sometimes, going back to the hotel to get drunk and throw TVs out of the windows. Joking! We are very normal.
I know Beverley has recently had cancer, and you have also been affected by this. How is she doing?
Judie Tzuke: I had cancer too, a couple of years before she had it. Do you know, I don’t think there’s an obvious effect from it, other than I think we both always feel like it could come back. We don’t really talk about it much; we take care of each other and are aware of each other’s fears, but I think in general, I’m ploughing on until it gets me. If it does – I can’t speak for Beverley, really – it’s just one of those things. I don’t know if you’ve been affected by it?
I have, and unfortunately, it seems to be a common thread. I think it’s always in the back of your mind. But I think we just have to take care of ourselves the best we can and live as full a life as possible.
Judie Tzuke: I thought you might have. And yes, I was disappointed I didn’t suddenly become a completely mad health freak and change my life and all that afterwards! I am mostly vegan – I did that because my daughter was doing it, and because I love animals and watched a few of those awful films – but I do think that it’s a good thing to do, as it does stop cancer growing as much and as fast.
So, I try and be healthy, but I’m still overweight. I lost a lot of weight just before I had cancer, and when I got it I think I had a bit of a reaction, probably from some of the treatments and stuff. So, I’m overweight, but I am alive! I do eat healthily, but I don’t know what goes on with me… everybody’s body is a bit messed up. I was very messed up when I was young, with eating disorders and stuff.
Your latest single is titled Humankind. What are your thoughts on humankind right now?
Judie Tzuke: Well… I mean, I don’t know. I feel so dismayed by what the government is doing, and they don’t seem like humans to me. It’s not my description of them. I wrote Humankind about 10 years ago; I think it was relevant then, too, but not as relevant as now. But every day at the moment is terrifying. I just don’t know how we are being looked after – or, I don’t think we are being looked after, are we? Whatever they choose to do. I don’t think that can go on. I don’t know what’s going to happen, which is very scary.
Are your daughters joining you at all on this tour?
Judie Tzuke: No, not on this tour. My daughter [Bailey Tzuke] is on tour at the moment, actually, supporting Nerina Pallot, which has been fantastic. They are called T.I.G.Y., which stands for Thoughts I Give You, and it’s sort of like my sister’s diary: my sister was killed in a car crash when she was 18, and I inherited her diaries. They were all called T.I.G.Y., and I gave them to Bailey and we’ve all sort of taken it on. It’s like your day-to-day feelings, and I think what Bailey has done is very beautiful. Everyone should listen to it because it’s quite unique.
What music are you listening to at the moment?
Judie Tzuke: There are a lot of young people. There’s a chap called Rhodes that I like. I love Phoebe Bridgers, and I actually like Billie Eilish a lot. I see her as ageless, and she reminds me of me, as she writes from her heart, and doesn’t stop her feelings from coming into her songs.
So, ultimately, what one thing would you like the audience to take away from the Woman To Woman concerts this time?
Judie Tzuke: I guess, when I was young, had just started listening to music, and was going through terrible things, I found Jackson Browne, Joni Mitchell and those people, and they were all writing songs about feelings. That made me realise that I wasn’t alone, and it properly supported my mental health – I hate saying mental health, I think it’s a much-overused term now – but music saved me from a lot of things. I would like people to hear my songs and actually feel comforted by the fact that they’re not the only ones. That’s what I’d like to give to my audience: what I had given to me when I first found music.
All the best with the tour, I’m sure you’ll all rock it. And just listening to that song of yours, Stay With Me Till Dawn… there must have been lots of babies made to that one!
Judie Tzuke: Well, lots of virginities lost apparently. One of the Hairy Bikers told me that he lost his to that song!
Woman To Woman: Beverley Craven, Judie Tzuke, Julia Fordham and Rumer, St David’s Hall, Cardiff, Fri 11 Nov.
Tickets: £48/£41.50. Info: here
words ANNA MITCHELL
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